Camping and service at Lazy Days in Tampa

Since we want to tow our RAM 1500 pickup truck, we needed to outfit it with a base plate, tow bar and braking system.  We decided several weeks ago to get the Blue Ox tow bar/base plate and have the Air Force One braking system installed.  Knowing that it would take a day or two to do all of the work, we thought we'd kill time while we waited by taking some courses at Lazy Days in Seffner (Tampa), FL.

I was concerned about a place working on my coach that wasn't an "official" Newmar service center.  However, I was assured that Lazy Days does a tremendous volume of service and they have installed hundreds of similar systems.  The work on the truck would take a day or day and a half, and they would need the motorhome for about three hours following that.  We heard that they have a nice campground on-site with amenities like restaurants; they also said that we could get breakfast and lunch free every day and take their Driver Confidence Course at no cost since we were staying for 3+ nights in the resort.

Camping at Lazy Days

We arrived on Sunday afternoon, 1/27, and were shown to the last campsite they had that would fit our coach.  I wasn't pleased about this because I had picked out a site when I called - they even went through a list telling me what was and wasn't available.  When we arrived, the site had been taken and we were shown to the last row of streets and a site that barely fit our 43'9" coach.  There wasn't even room to put our truck in front of the rig; we had to park it in a nearby empty site.

Parking at Lazy Days is "straight in", so you have to know how to park the bigger rigs.  A worker came to our site and directed me while backing and I managed to do it the first time.  We immediately had a problem because the grass at the back of the pad (right behind the RV) sloped up enough that the giant Newmar mud flap dug into the dirt and almost bent.  I had to pull up a foot or two and then back up again while my wife held the flap up so that it wouldn't bend.

The campground has full hookups with 50-amp service, wifi that's decent if you're near the main complex, and cable TV that also includes HD channels.  All went pretty smooth except for the water connection.  Even after using two different water regulators, it still dripped at a pretty good rate.

There are trees throughout the park, and our 13'-high rig is situated within two feet of a tree on each side.  Putting an awning out meant slightly dragging some of the branches along the top as it extended, but it was probably okay to do it safely.  We had heard of other campers who called the office and asked them to come out to their site (which they did) to cut some branches before they even parked.

People in the campground are nice, but the atmosphere can't compare to the extremely friendly campers we encountered at Stone Mountain.  Most people walk by without saying hello and pretty much stick to themselves.  Perhaps it's because Stone Mountain folks are there to have a good time, while a lot of the Lazy Days campers are here for several months or have just stopped in for service.  At Stone Mountain, people would stop by, say hello and chat for a minute or two.  At Lazy Days, you may spend your entire stay of a few days without talking to anyone unless you initiate the conversation.

The Lazy Days service center is about half a mile away and they provide trolley service between the two most days.  Monday is not one of them, however, as the "trolley lady" has that day off.  But they are quick to point out that all you need to do is call Security and they'll come get you and give you a ride whenever you want it - even after hours.

At the entrance to the campground is a huge "Rally Center", which is a modern meeting room complete with a stage and kitchen.  One of the walls in the Center is a mock-up of a large RV, behind which is a restaurant/bar called Exit 10 (that's the exit you use to get there from I4).  Exit 10 is only open at 3pm some days, however.  Right outside the Rally center is their huge pool that is under screening.  It's very clean and modern; a lot of people use it and we could certainly see why they did.  There's also a spa ("hot tub") next to the pool.

When you check in, they give you free cards for breakfast and lunch everyday at a cafe located in the main building that houses sales, service and parts.  The cards only get you three types of muffin-style breakfast sandwiches (rather tasteless) or a plate with watery eggs and frozen-brought-back-to-life breakfast potatoes.  Bacon is supposed to be extra, but they didn't charge us for it.  Other things that are available include waffles, for about $7.  At lunch, the freebies include a hamburger, chicken sandwich, fish sandwich or a "Daily Special".  On the Tuesday we were there, the special was a beef, cheese and bean burrito with chips.  It was okay and was hot but, like most of the stuff, was somewhat bland.

Sodas and coffee were free and you can go in there any time and help yourself.  Nice.

Service at Lazy Days

Service at Lazy Days was not as pleasant as it has been at most of the places we have taken our car.  I guess I was very spoiled by the extremely attentive technicians at National Indoor RV Center in GA (now in Lewisville).  Even though I called four or five times before we went to make sure that they would have my parts in stock to do the work, a guy from the parts department knocked on my door mid-day to say that they had not checked the stock and didn't have the part.  To their credit, they had it the next morning and were able to begin the work.  It was frustrating for me because I had left two unanswered voice mails with the service manager over a period of two weeks, had spoken on the phone twice with the parts guy and specifically told them I was trying to avoid a mix-up when we got there.

Our service manager told me that they had over 400 coaches currently being serviced, and shared that he was responsible for about 70 of them.  I respect that they're busy, but when they are that busy, it leaves little time for paying attention to the customer.  My service manager never asked me how I was doing, how long I had been RVing, or anything personal at all.  Our discussions were very, very brief and to the point.  He was always polite and courteous, but that's about where it ended.

After a one-day delay getting started, I was concerned that they may not finish in time to get us out by the morning of New Year's Eve.  The service manager told me that they had to do the work in the truck (install base plate, wiring, and the braking system) and that it would take at least one day, maybe a bit more.  Then he said they would ask for the coach so they could install that part of the braking system.  I don't know why they couldn't take the coach earlier, but they do the work serially.  So the truck went in early Tuesday morning and by Tuesday night we had not even received a phone call.

On Wednesday morning, we packed up the coach, put in the slides and took the rig over to the service center.  They hadn't called yet, but we wanted to be over there so that it would be ready as soon as they called for it.  I walked into the service area and found our service manager, who made a phone call and then came out and said that they were going to take it back right away.  When he got into the coach to drive it back to a service bay, I reminded him that I wanted them to install the remote booster for my new Tireminder system (it's just a connection to 12V in the rear battery bay).  I told him that I didn't think it would take them but a few minutes to do it because they surely did a lot of them - after all, they sell the Tireminder system in their Accessories store.  He held it in his hand and told me that they actually try to discourage people from using them (the Tireminder) because they have had a lot of problems.  That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that.  As a matter of fact, and I mentioned this to him, Lazy Days sells the Tireminder in their accessories store - and it's the only TPMS they sell.  He followed that up by telling me that it would be no problem to install it.

They finally called us at 4pm on Wednesday and we took a golf cart to the service bay.  The technician showed us the Blue Ox Avail tow bar setup, explained the connections, and patiently answered all of our questions about towing and using the Air Force One braking system.

While our service manager took my wife back to the office to pay the bill, I drove the coach and our newly-attached truck down the long row behind the service bays and up to the front parking lot.  As I was making turns, I could "feel" the 65 feet behind me when the truck appeared in the convex mirrors.  Wow.  That's a lot of real estate.   After getting to the front of the building, I pulled the coach/toad into one of those long parking spaces to wait for my wife.  There are several rows of these spaces in front of the buildings, so it was my plan to just pull forward into the next aisle when we left.  I turned off the engine, stepped out of the coach and couldn't believe what I saw:  both sides of the aisle were blocked.  I hadn't driven the coach with the toad more than a quarter of a mile and I already had to detach it so I could back out of the space!  

All told, our service experience with Lazy Days was a good one.  They didn't have the right part after a lot of effort to get it right ahead of time, but once the part was in they did a good job and took their time to explain everything to us.  We had to wait a while, but it was more than bearable because of the nice facilities, courses, food and other amenities.

Courses offered by Lazy Days

Lazy Days offers several courses, most of them are free and about one hour long.  They have classes in convection microwave cooking, electrical systems, plumbing, towing, apps, and more.  Their "big" course is the Driver's Confidence training, which consists of two hours of classroom instruction in the morning followed by actual driving in the afternoon.  The classroom session is very informative, and the experienced instructor teaches a "dot" system where you place sticky dots on your coach and mirrors to increase your awareness around the rig when you're driving and parking.

My wife and I took the Driver's Confidence Course and were impressed by the simplicity of the system.  A lot of the nervousness that new coach drivers have is rooted in the mysteries of turning and parking.  The course provides a logical and practical plan to do these things, thus giving students the "confidence" that its title promises.  The last thing we did on the last afternoon we were at Lazy Days was apply the dots to our coach before returning to our site from the service center.  When we got to our site, there were cars parked everywhere in front of their coaches and getting in was going to be tight.  We followed the course's instructions the best we could, and managed to get our coach squarely in our site without any issues.

If you want to take the DCC, you'll have to call in advance.  All of the others were open classes; just show up and attend.  The classroom is located in the main building right off the customer lounge.

Most of the instructors provided handouts that had screenshots of their slides.  This was particularly helpful later because you can not only refer to the slides, but you can write notes beside them.  

Overall Impressions

We enjoyed staying at Lazy Days RV Resort and are likely to return there if we need service.  However, we wouldn't consider it a destination campground because the sites themselves had little to offer.  No fire pits, no grills, no lakes, no views, etc.  Just a space and a picnic table.  When you're getting service, though, their willingness to provide transportation to anywhere on or next to the property (to and from the service center, to the Cracker Barrel, and just about anywhere at any time of the day) was nice.  Amenities like the pool, restaurants, and waiting areas were clean and well-maintained, and all of the employees were welcoming.  I'll bet we heard "Welcome to Lazy Days" at least six times a day.

  

Access to Lazy Days is easy because it's right off of I-4 just east of Tampa. Once you get off of the interstate at Exit 10, you drive north between a Flying J on your left and a TA on your right.  Then you turn left into the campground. 

Courses to take and things to buy

Now that we have the RV and have bought the basics, we're beginning to realize a few other things we need.  It's also time to set up a few courses and think about when we want to get some of the other accessories we wanted.

Here's a list of what's coming up:

• Tow bar, base plate and braking system.  We plan to get a Blue Ox tow bar and an Air Force One braking system.  Hopefully, we'll have all of it installed before January.
  
• Driver Confidence Training.  Lazy Days offers this course and we plan to take it at the end of December.  Two hours of classroom in the morning followed by two hours of driving in the afternoon.  Their 45-minute video on Youtube is really good.
  
• Other courses.  While at Lazy Days, my DW plans to take a few one-hour courses in Convection Microwave Cooking, Insurance and Trip Planning.
  
• Camp Freightliner.  We had reservations to get six-month service and attend the camp next October, but since we bought our coach earlier we'll need to move the date to the left.  We'll probably go next May, June or July now.
  
• Supplies.  After driving a bit, I want one of those long-handled brushes to clean the windshield.  We also need tire covers, a lightweight/collapsible kitchen garbage bag holder, some DEF to carry in the coach, roadside emergency triangles, and an Oxygenics shower head.
  
• Accessories.  Although we'll wait a while to get some of these things, we still want a Tire Pressure Monitoring System, a Wifi range extender, satellite receivers, a SeeLevel tank monitoring system, some jack pads and a cell signal booster. 

There's a lot to do, but we're enjoying every minute of it.

Upcoming plans: a new rim, a tow bar, the Tampa Show, and a bit of Fort Wilderness

Having found a place to park the rig near the Orlando International Airport, which is only about 15 minutes from my soon-to-be-sold house, it's time to look ahead and make a few plans for the near future.

While we were at Stone Mountain, my neighbor suggested that I look at the Tyron Flat tire protection system.  This system consist of bands that are wrapped around the hub of your tire rim (there's a well inside that the band fills).  The bands prevent your tires from quickly being shredded by the rim in the event of a blowout, allowing increased stability and control.  They also allow you to continue driving a short distance.  Tyron bands seemed like a great safety feature to put in the front tires, so the day after leaving the campground, I asked our dealer to install them.  Tyron bands are not cheap:  it was a little over $1000 per tire.  But the peace of mind and the capabilities it provides will undoubtedly pay for itself.

While our dealer was installing the Tyron bands, they made two small scratches on the right front rim.  To their credit, they told me about it immediately and even made all of the arrangements to have a new one shipped to the closest dealer to my house (Independence RV in Winter Garden, FL) for installation at their expense.  Again, I can't say enough about National Indoor RV Centers and, in particular, Todd's staff at the dealership in Lilburn, GA. 

Next up will be a trip to Independence RV to have the new rim installed. 

During the last week of December, we're trying to line up a few things with Lazy Days in Tampa.  Ideally, we want to go over and spend two or three nights while they install a Blue Ox towing bar on our coach and a base plate and an Air Force One braking system on our Ram 1500.  We can also both attend their Driver Confidence Course while we are over there.  We're waiting on Lazy Days to call and let us know if they can put it all together.

On January 12th, we'll head over for five nights of camping on-site with the Newmar Kountry Klub at the Tampa RV SuperShow.  It's a buddy rally, and my brother-in-law is bringing along his new Fleetwood Expedition 38s.  It should be a great opportunity to learn a lot from all of the other Newmar Owners, see all of the things at the show, and buy some items at the exposition's.  If all goes well with Lazy Days, we can even tow our truck over and go out to some local restaurants for dinner!

It won't be over when we leave the fairgrounds on Sunday morning.  We'll be heading straight to Fort Wilderness Campground at Walt Disney World for a three night stay.  This time, two of my grandchildren will be joining us - and so will my sister, brother-in-law, and two of their grandkids.  

That'll take us through January.  Guess it's time to start thinking about the months to follow...

Life in the Campground

As we settled in for our first night in the new motorhome, we realized how tired we were.  We had gotten up early that morning, driven three hours to the dealer, and spent the day taking delivery of the coach and picking up our daughter at the airport before we headed out to Stone Mountain.

As you've heard before - or experienced yourself - people in campgrounds are the friendliest people in the world.  I think it's got a lot to do with the fact that they generally fall into two "happy" categories:  they're either on vacation or they're retired.

Right after pulling in and setting up the rig, I took out the folding chairs and set them up in the campsite. We had a great view of a lake, a fire pit, a grill and a picnic table.  The campground itself was full, with a lot of activity - fires, people watching football, and couples taking walks along the road between the campers.  We loved it.  Several people stopped by, having seen the temporary tag on the back of our coach.  "Beautiful!", "Nice rig!", and "We just love it" were some of the comments we heard.  Given that we had just taken delivery that day, it was great to hear all of the compliments.

We spent the first night in our Dutch Star simply amazed at how fun it was to do all of the same things we do at home, but doing them in the center of a campground.   There was plenty of room to do everything, and with all of the modern conveniences.  Glamping at its best.

The next morning, I stepped outside and took a short walk. Two RVs away from ours, another camper and I struck up a conversation.  Joe was friendly and had been RVing for some time with his wife Missy.  We talked quite a bit and ended up discovering that we all play Hand and Foot, a card game that we have played for many years.  Later that day, both of them came over and visited for a while.  We had already made friends.

That same day, we met a family from Atlanta that had a Mountain Aire and were parked a few spaces away.  We ended up talking with them for a long time, and they came in to look at our new home on wheels.  Ezell, Barbara and their daughter Leslie were some of the nicest people we've met, and we hope to see them again in our travels.

Saturday afternoon, we were sitting outside enjoying the lake and a fire when a coach pulled into a spot next to ours.  We had been told by the dealer that customers of theirs would be coming in, so we introduced ourselves to Bill and Joyce.  They had been traveling a while and were on their way back to Florida.  Joyce showed us some modifications they did and Bill gave me a lot of great advice about some things we could do with our coach.  Shortly after they first pulled up, Bill was fiddling with his plumbing (thankfully, it was the potable water) when it slipped out of his hand.  Water sprayed me from my shoes to my chest - and I was standing about 15 feet away.  Everyone had a good laugh as Bill told us that it was a good way to meet new people.

We watched a bit of football that night on our outdoor TV.  Bill, the man at the site across from ours, and some camp hosts all stopped by to talk about the game.  After the sun went down, my wife, daughter and I sat around our campfire.  We laughed, roasted marshmallows and made smores. And we talked.  Gotta' love it.

The next morning, Joyce walked over and gave us some of her homemade fudge.  It was nice of her, and it kind of put the exclamation point on the campground hospitality.  Thinking of that, I stepped outside and was surprised to see that many - a lot - of the RVs were gone!  For the rest of the morning, people kept pulling out until there were only about a dozen rigs left in our portion of the campground.  We went out for a breakfast buffet in the park, and returned to our site for a quiet afternoon in and around our motorhome.

Early Monday morning, my wife and daughter took the truck and left for Florida.  When I got up a couple of hours later, even my neighbors had already pulled out.  I packed everything up and headed out towards our dealer so they could work a small punch list.

As I slowly drove out of the empty campground, I looked out the window and remembered all of the people that were there Friday night.  All of those people having a great time, enjoying the outdoors and sitting around their campfires.

We'll be back.  Let the adventure begin.

Setting up camp

It was so much fun taking delivery of the new RV - just like you can imagine it would be.  As we walked around learning about all of its systems and features, I couldn't stop smiling.

In the two or three days leading up to the big moment, we took several checklists we had found on the Internet (like this one) and compiled our own exhaustive list of things to load before heading out for our first camping experience in the new coach. We had toilet paper, tools, a broom, soap, dishes, and much more. Our pickup truck was full, but I didn't feel bad because I've read more than one account from people who filled a U-Haul trailer with stuff that they took when they picked up their RVs.

By early afternoon, we began transferring things to the coach.  Instead of imagining this moment, we were living it and loving every minute of it.

Our salesman at National Indoor RV Center had arranged for us to spend three nights at Stone Mountain Campground in Atlanta.  The campground is only four miles from the dealership, so it was a short drive to our first night's stay.  My wife drove our pickup truck; we still need to get the towing apparatus.

I had read more than once about the tight entrance into Stone Mountain Park.  Let me tell you, they weren't kidding.  There I was, driving my brand new coach that I had only pulled out of the dealer parking lot 15 minutes ago, pulling up to these tiny guard booths at the Park's entrance - and hearing the dead branches of some little trees in front of those booths scraping against the sides of my baby.  As I approached, it quickly became apparent that my mirrors were going to barely - and I mean barely - clear the booths.  I'll bet that the mirrors passed with less than four inches on each side!

Right after you go through the Park's main gate, you need to make a left turn to go down to the campground.  Despite the easy ride I had from the dealer to the park, I made a stupid mistake making the turn.  When you drive an RV, you can't "think" like someone driving a car.  I saw an opportunity to make the left turn during a long gap in the oncoming cars and swung the wheel hard to make a quick turn.  There should be no such thing as a "quick turn" in an RV.  I came very close to a man and his family stopped on my left; so close that he had to back up.  He said a few unkind words and made it clear he was no fan of my driving.  I hollered "thank you" out the window and kept on going. And all of this happened with my 18-year old daughter sitting next to me.

As I pulled the rig into the camp registration area, a camp host named Rick and I talked for a minute and he was kind enough to offer up some pointers about getting to our site.  When my wife returned from the registration desk, Rick said he would lead us to the site and help me park it.

Following his directions, I turned the RV around and headed down a road towards our first camp site in the new coach.  The small road didn't have many people on it and it looked like it would be an easy ride all the way.  Until we made a right turn.  By the time the wheel straightened, we were on a one lane, crowded street in a loop of RVs, with many of them and their toads hugging the shoulders of the pavement.  People were walking right alongside the road on both sides, forcing me to go very slowly and carefully all the way to our site around another corner.  As we rounded the corner, we saw the premium sites (the dealer had set us up with one of them) and were pleasantly surprised to see that they were spacious and all had views of the lake. Rick got out of his golf cart and directed me into the site without any problems, thanks in large part to the guy in the site across from ours who saw what was going on and moved his truck.

After stabilizing the coach with the levelers, I got out and made all of the connections.  The first thing was to unbox the new Surge Guard surge protector and get power going.  Then I attached the new water pressure regulator to the coach's potable water hose and made that connection.  Then was the sewer connection (I was surprised that I didn't have to use the sewer hose extension that we had asked the dealer to provide because we thought the one that came with the coach was too short).  Finally, I unpacked the new coax cable I had bought at Target and connected the cable TV.  Everything worked the first time out.  The only thing I forgot, but remembered a couple of hours later, was to open the gray water drain.

We were in business.  Ready to camp in our brand new coach.

Wow.  What a day!

Pictures of our new 2015 Dutch Star 4369

We were lucky to find one of the few remaining new 2015 Dutch Star 4369's.  When we looked on the Internet - not two weeks ago - we only saw about fifteen listings.  The one that we found and bought has the following features that we really wanted in a Dutch Star:

• Couch
• Recliners
• Dinette with the roll-away table
• Awning with LED lights and a wind sensor
• Residential refrigerator with in-door water/ice dispenser
• Kitchen window

Unless otherwise indicated, these photos were taken by the staff at National Indoor RV Centers in Lilburn, GA and appeared in the online ad that saw when shortly before we made our first inquiry.

When we first walked through the Dutch Star more than a year ago, we looked at the options for exterior colors.  Of the standard schemes they offered, my favorite was Bon Bon.  It's a combination of black, beige, white and beige-brown (almost gray).  Another bonus for us when we found this coach online was that it had the Bon Bon colors.

All Dutch Stars are painted so that the sides of the slides match the designs on the sides of the walls as though it were one continuous design.  The colors here allowed us to have a dark look while still "matching" our interior colors.

In the interior, we opted for the two recliners opposite the sofa.  The cherry cabinets were a plus because we had originally ordered those anyway.  While they may darken with age, the grain in the wood gives the entire coach more texture and goes very well with the cordova furniture.  The floor tile was a surprise because we had thought about putting in something lighter.  However, we had always liked the darker tile because everything looked good against and it has lots of variations that give it a more elegant appearance.  And no, we didn't keep the orange pillows.

We were lucky to find this particular rig because it has the roll-away dinette table.  The table is made of several segments that are literally rolled into the buffet under the window.  When it's fully pulled out, it's about 48 inches long - plenty enough to seat four people to eat or play cards.  I posted a lot about our original decision regarding the dinette in an article called Choosing a dinette.

These photos give you an idea of the rest of the coach, with a picture of the rear bathroom sinks and the bedroom.  The entire floor plan and most of the features of this 2015 model are the same as in a previous post called Interior features of the 2016 Dutch Star 4369.

I've already spent a lot of time describing the 4369, so let's get on to the our first night out!

We just got our new coach!

Given the issues with the 2016 Dutch Star front axle weight, we looked at our options and decided that we would do our best to find a 2015 that was as close as we could possibly get to the 2016 rig that we canceled.

Searching the Internet, we weren't surprised that the number of 2015's was dwindling fast.  We got lucky when we found one that not only had the couch/recliners/maple cherry/roll-away dinette we had chosen, but had the optional kitchen window and the Bon-bon exterior (black/white/beige) that I had loved when I first saw the 2015 models more than a year ago.  It was hard to give up the 2016's escape door, passive steering tag axle and our 40-something customizations, but we knew that the end result would save us a lot of money, be safer, and get us into a coach that had all of the things that made us fall in love with the Dutch Star.

The one we found was located at National Indoor RV Center  in Lilburn, GA - a suburb of Atlanta.  On November 19, we called them and asked a lot of questions and gave them a credit card deposit to hold it for us.  On the 20th, we drove to Atlanta from Orlando, looked at it, drove it, added a larger deposit, and then made the trip back to Florida.  Fourteen hours on the road that day, but the two and a half that we spent in Lilburn was well worth it.  After years of research and a canceled order, we had found our new coach.

Yesterday, we picked it up.  The technicians at NIRVC let us through all of the systems, explained everything in detail and answered our questions.  Our salesman arranged for us to spend three nights at the Stone Mountain Campground, only four miles from the NIRVC dealership. 

One of the things we had ordered in our 2016 coach was the Girard Nova awnings.  I liked them for three reasons:  the two stage "break" in the awning that provided an angle for a bit more shade, the LED lights along the edge of the awning, and the wind sensor.  The coach we bought doesn't have the Nova awnings, so I thought that we had lost all three of the features.  As it turns out, the standard awnings have the LEDs and the wind sensor, so we lost very little.  This was a pleasant surprise.

I'll talk about our first night experience in another post, but I want to take a few minutes to thank some really great salesmen and technicians.

We ordered our 2016 at Independence RV in Winter Garden, FL.  Our salesman was David Scott, who took the time to show us things on the Dutch Star's and explain a lot of details.  David really helped us a lot, and we hated to cancel our order with him because of things beyond his control.  When we went looking for a 2015, we looked first at Independence's inventory, because we wanted to buy from David.  It just didn't work out because  they had none in stock.  David is a nice guy and we highly recommend calling him if you are interested in anything on their web site.

Our salesman at National Indoor RV Center was Tony Morse.  Tony followed through with answering our questions, on the phone and by e-mail.  He took us around the dealership and introduced us to a team of incredible professionals, including Stephen Riexinger (Service Manager), Justin Townley (PDI Manager), Mike (the guy who conducted our walk-through) and Luis Grove, the sales manager.  What really impressed us with NIRVC was that everyone we talked to not only bent over backwards to answer our questions, but openly volunteered their cell phone numbers so that we can call them any time we need help.  What?  That kind of dedication is amazing.  I actually took them up on it the first night out.  At one point, Steven even told me that he would come out to my site - on a holiday weekend - to help me.  The people at NIRVC have a steadfast commitment to customer service and should teach this stuff to other dealers.

Next up, I'll show off our coach with a few pictures, then follow that with a write up describing our first night out:  what went wrong, what went right and what we learned.

Considering our options

When we canceled the order for our 2016 Newmar Dutch Star 4369 because of some weight issues and uncertainty about the solution, we knew that there were just a few paths we could take:

1. Wait and see if they would fix it in the 2016 model.
2. Wait to order the 2017 model - if the problems were fixed (to our satisfaction)
3. Look for something from another manufacturer
4. Order an earlier but similar model of the same type

After a lot of discussion, reading every post we could find in the forums and scouring the Internet for information, we came to the following conclusions about each of these options.

Wait for a "fix" to the 2016

For us, this option was full of potential "gotchas".  First and foremost, the proportional valve solution being investigated by Newmar and Freightliner may or may not solve the problem.  Everyone thinks that it will take some weight off the problematic front axle, but it will add weight to the other axles.  That might not be so bad, except that quite a few people believe that the most weight that could be taken from the front is 200-400 pounds.  Typical weights with full fuel, water tanks, people and a reasonable amount of cargo are right up to the maximum 17,000 pounds - or they are exceeding it by several hundred pounds.  There isn't much margin, and a lot of people think that the "solution" is merely a band aid.

Another aspect of this possible resolution is that Newmar Customer Service management called quite a few customers in mid-November and told them that Freightliner was going to take "10 to 12 weeks" to develop a solution.  Once Newmar has Freightliner's part, they have to test it.  Simple math shows that Newmar isn't likely to begin testing until mid-to-late February.  By the time it's tested and available, it seemed to me that we wouldn't get the word (good or bad) until late March at the earliest.  If you try to re-start your 2016 order in late March, you risk them not having enough chassis.  And besides, you can order the 2017's beginning just 8 weeks after that.  If we were going to opt for this path, we may as well just wait and order a 2017.  Scrap this option.

Wait to order the 2017 model

This is a good, viable option for those willing to wait - with one big caveat.  Newmar hasn't announced what they're doing to the 17's and customer service basically says they don't know yet how the axle weight issues will be resolved in the 17's. 

Simply put, if we opted to wait for the 17's, it would be May before we'd know what they did.  And if the solution was reasonable, it would likely be next October before we could take delivery of one.   Lots of ifs and maybe's.  As a matter of fact, too many.   If the 17's are like any other year, we'll likely see a jump in the price, too.  

We aren't willing to wait another year and see.  Pass on this option.

Look for something from another manufacturer

In the same price range as the 2016 Dutch Stars and of comparable build quality and customer satisfaction are Entegra and Tiffin RVs.  If you spend some serious time reading Facegroup groups like Big Rig RVs and Full-Time RVer, and following the topics in forums like irv2's Newmar Owners Forum, you'll soon discover that Entegra is appreciated for their build quality (similar in many ways to Newmar's) and Tiffin seems to have many devoted and very satisfied customers.  If we were to start looking at other manufacturer's, we would certainly begin with these two.

Taking this path is difficult because we have invested so much time in studying Newmar and its products.  Despite the current problems with the front axle GAWR and the overall weight issue, we know that they build a quality coach and are normally very responsive to their customers.  Starting over is daunting.  We originally looked at all of the major manufacturers, including these two.  But we kept coming back to Newmar for a reason.

Order an earlier model of the same type

More than a year ago, we decided that the coach we really wanted and preferred above all others was the Dutch Star.  We visited some dealers and then went to the show in Tampa and felt sure that either the model 4018 or the 4369 was the coach we wanted to buy.  After lots of walk-throughs, a lot of research, and discussions with owners, we locked our sights onto the 4369.  It seemed like the perfect floor plan and it had a phenomenal chassis.

We really hated to see the coach we wanted slip through our fingers because of a technical glitch.  Maybe it makes sense to buy a used pre-2016 model.  We could save some money and still get the same floorplan and basic chassis features we wanted.

The biggest problem would be giving up things like the 2016's emergency door and tag axle - not to mention all of the specials we planned to order.  But we want to get a coach.  It must be safe, without us feeling like we have to pay attention every time we add new cargo or invite an extra passenger.  We want a Dutch Star, and we love the 4369.  And, after all, we felt this way as we walked through all of the 2015's we saw at the 2015 Tampa Show and soon thereafter at some dealers.  

We'll trade some of the new features for confidence in the safety of our coach and enough savings to customize it as much as we want.

After a lot of discussion, this is what we decided to do.  We knew that there were still a few new 2015's out there, so we concentrated our search efforts on new 2015 Dutch Star 4369's.  The question was whether or not we could find one that had the features (floor plan, furniture, and colors) we've been wanting.  

We canceled our order

Yep.  You read that title correctly.  We canceled our order.

The front axle weight issue and the lack of an immediate solution gave us serious doubts about buying any 2016 Dutch Star.  We love Newmar and will continue to love their products, but they got this wrong and the fix is too far down the road for us to wait.

If you're unfamiliar, Newmar increased the overall weight you could carry in its 43-footers because they bumped up their GVWR by 2,400 pounds.  This seemingly solved my previous problem about possibly having very little weight we could put in the coach.  So what's the issue?

As more people focused on the overall change, there was considerable talk about the weight on the front axle.  Specifically, the front GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) is 17,000 pounds for the 43' Dutch Stars.  However, some people that reported their axle weights were showing that they were over that limit by several hundred pounds.  Others said that they were within 300 pounds and didn't even have a full tank of fuel.  There's a very long thread about this on irv2.com, so I won't dive into the details here.

Safety is #1.  So even though it would have been a stunning coach, we decided that we didn't want to constantly worry about our weight on that axle.  Because of that, we canceled our order.

As soon as we did, we knew we'd have to make a decision.  Wait for Newmar to come up with a solution?  Wait to see what they would do in the 2017 models?  Get something from another manufacturer?

Newmar has called many of its customers and told them that it is looking to install a valve that will take weight off of the axle and re-apportion it to the rear axles.  How much weight?  They don't know yet.  Freightliner is working a solution but won't have anything until mid-February.  Then Newmar has to test it.   We figured that if we waited to see if it is a viable (to us) solution, then we wouldn't be able to give the go-ahead on our 2016 coach until - probably - the beginning of April.  But since they will probably begin taking orders for the 17's in May, it makes more sense to just order a '17.  But Newmar won't say how the problem will be resolved in the 2017's, so it's tough to know what to do.

Look for my next post soon after Thanksgiving.  You'll see how we examine our options and reached a few conclusions that make sense.

Update on weights

In a previous post titled Understanding Weights, I commented about how much cargo we'd be able to carry based on the GVWR of our Dutch Star 4369 and several other factors.

In its printed brochure for the 2016 DS4369 (and all of their 43' models), Newmar shows the GVWR to be 44,600 pounds.   However, when you add up the weight that all axles can support - from the same brochure - you get 47,000 pounds.  Now I have long understood that adding up all of the GAWR's to get the GVWR isn't necessarily accurate in all cases, but it should be pretty close.  In this case, it's quite a difference:  2,400 pounds to be exact.

Since the GVWR in the brochure is 44,600 and the UVW is 39,000 (Vehicle can carry a total of 44.6 and its unloaded weight is 39), that left a total of 5600 pounds of Net Carrying Capacity (NCC).  When calculating OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity), it seemed to me that a lot of 4369's were coming in around 3300 pounds, which meant that I only had 3300 pounds to use for fresh water, people, and cargo.  My estimate was that I may have about 1000 pounds to spare.  Not much.

Recently, Newmar changed the 2016 Dutch Star specifications on their web site to show that ALL 43' models have a GVCR of 47000 pounds.  Several people in irv2 forums said that the number looks correct, since the axle ratings (front to back) of 17K, 20K and 10K pounds were inline with those specified in Freightliner documents.   As they changed the GVCR, the NCC changed accordingly.  It's now shown as 8000 pounds.

The bottom line is that it now looks like we have a comfortable margin for cargo:  2400 more pounds than I had anticipated.  At this time, people are wondering if the actual stickers in the coaches will reflect the new numbers.  Is the web site correct?   Still waiting to hear more about this.

[Update on 11/10/15]  Despite the possibility of having an additional 2400 pounds, there's a lot of talk in the forums about Newmar's 43' DSDP's being almost overweight on the front axle when they're driven out of the factory.  By the time you add a full tank of fuel, folks are saying that corner weights (which can tell you how much weight is on the front axle) show that it is pushing the 17,000 pound limit (GAWR-Front).   I'm not overly concerned, but this is certainly something to watch.

Camp Freightliner

When we were at the 2015 Tampa RV Supershow, Freightliner had a display under a large tent.  Since it's the company that manufactures the chassis for the motorhome we wanted, we stopped by to see what it was all about.

The centerpiece of their tent was a large XCR chassis.  I pointed out to my wife that, like the one we were going to get, it had a tag axle, side radiator, and a few other features.  A Freightliner rep walked over and asked us what kind of coach we had.  When we told him that we were planning to get a Newmar Dutch Star 4369, he smiled, placed a hand on the chassis and said "this is the one!".

It was amazing to look at "our" coach without any house on it.  Not even the framework that serves as the basement was added - it was just a bunch of rails, tanks, and a big diesel engine in the rear.  Up front were some pedals and a steering wheel sticking up - and not much else.  We walked around it for almost an hour asking questions about the gas tanks, tires, engine and more.

At one point, my wife wandered over to a table where they had some brochures.  She loves to pick up reading material, so it wasn't surprising when she returned with a paper and started talking to me about "Camp Freightliner".  The surprise was when she told me that she wanted to go!

Camp Freightliner is, and I quote from their web site, "a comprehensive and captivating two-day training session in Gaffney, S.C., to learn more about the benefits of driving a motorhome built on an FCCC chassis. Topics include the air brake system, electrical system, maintenance intervals, weight distribution and vehicle storage, plus much more. This is not a hands-on workshop, but we will spend time at a bare chassis, allowing you to become more familiar with the features."

It's important to us to learn everything about the place that we'll be calling home for most of the year, and so we really want to attend one of the camps.  They offer them several times each year and you can make reservations online.  The best time to make reservations for the next year is in October of the previous year.  They fill up fast.

During the two-day workshop, they will feed you lunch.  You can also schedule service on your chassis (oil change, tire rotations, corner weighing, etc.) while you're there attending the camp.  Six miles away is the Spartanburg KOA, a large campground with full hook-ups and pull-thru sites.   They'll even pick you up at your camp site and drive you to Camp Freightliner each day about 7:30 am.  After the first day of camp, their Customer Support group hosts a dinner at 5:30 so you can mingle and meet people that work there.

They also offer a second workshop called Camp Freightliner II.  It's not scheduled at the same time (or even immediately following) the two-day camp, and they don't have as many available dates.  This camp is intended for people who want to spend time with a service technician while they work - and ask all the questions they care to ask.

The price for Camp Freightliner is $175 for one person and $225 for a couple.  Camp Freightliner II is $100 per person.

We've definitely decided to go in 2016 and will be attending six months after we get our coach. We've already made reservations for the class on October 17th and 18th. That way, we can get to the KOA on a Sunday, attend the workshop and dinner on Monday, and have our rig's six-month service on Tuesday while we're in class.  Nice!  

Everything you need to know can be found on the Camp Freightliner web site.

Our Approved Specials

Here is the list of the approved special requests for our 2016 Dutch Star 4369:

1. 110V GFI OUTLET IN 1ST DS STORAGE COMPARTMENT BEHIND THE DOOR
2. 110V GFI OUTLET IN DS STORAGE COMPARTMENT CONTAINING AWNING ELECTRONICS
3. ADD 110V/USB OUTLET IN NIGHTSTAND TO THE RIGHT OF THE BED
4. 110V OUTLET ON THE WALL BETWEEN THE SHOWER AND THE TOILET IN THE REAR BATH
5. 110V OUTLET ON BDRM WALL (BEHIND IT IS THE SHOWER) JUST UNDER THE WARDROBE TO THE LEFT OF THE FIRST (WILL BE USED TO PLUG IN A VERTICAL FLOOR FAN)
6. 110V OUTLET UNDERNEATH THE RIGHT VANITY SINK
7. 110V/USB OUTLET ON WALL IN CORNER BEHIND COUCH (NEXT TO KITCHEN COUNTER UNDER LIGHTING CONTROLS)
8. 110V/USB OUTLET NEAR PASSENGER SEAT (ABOVE EXISTING OUTLET ON WALL BEHIND PASSENGER)
9. 110V/USB OUTLET BEHIND DRIVER SEAT (ABOVE EXISTING OUTLET ON WALL BEHIND DRIVER)
10. 12V OUTLET LEFT OF STEERING WHEEL ON DASH
11. 2 STD CEILING LIGHTS OVER VANITY TO WORK ON SAME SWITCH AS OTHER CEILING LIGHTS
12. ADD 2 LED LIGHTS MOUNTED UNDER MICROWAVE NEAR BACK WALL. SAME SWITCH AS LIGHTS OVER SINK.
13. 8 AGM BATTERIES ILO STD - ORDER CALLS FOR ALL ELECTRIC OPTION
14. ULTRALUX LEATHER ON DINETTE CHAIRS
15. DS DORMI & ODS 2 RECLINERS<<W/FREE STANDING LAMPSTAND
16. DS16-280 LEATHER "B" ON HEADBOARD ILO STD.
17. ADD 2 EXTRA SHELVES IN BDRM WRB NEAREST PANTRY
18. SPECIAL ORDER EXTERIOR COLORS
• SKIN-56680 CAJUN SPICE OBSIDIAN
• A-64503 MEDIUM FAWN MET
• B-44429B LIGHT CHAMPAINE MET
• C-57714 DARK FAWN MET
• AWNING LINEN TWEED
19. SHURFLO 4048 WATER PUMP ILO STD - NEWMAR #127488
20. RAISE BOTH STOOLS BY 2"
21. INSTALL PLAIN MIRRORS ILO SMOKED IN KITCHEN AND BEDROOM
22. ADD LED LIGHTS INSIDE PANTRY TO TURN ON WHEN DOOR OPENS
23. ADD 2 ADJUSTABLE SHELVES TO WARDROBE RIGHT OF TV IN BEDROOM
24. PREP FOR GROUND TRIPOD SATELLITE DISH ON ODS WITH A/B SWITCH
25. DS16-300 MAIN AND 1/2 BATH WALL BOARD ILO STD
26. VT16-320 TILE INSERTS AND VT STYLE KITCHEN BACKSPLASH ILO STD
27. VT16-320 TILE INSERTS IN BOTH BATHROOMS BACKSPLASHES<
28. LOWER SHOWER SEAT TO 17" FROM FLOOR
29. ADD 110V OUTLET IN KITCHEN OHC NEXT TO MICROWAVE OUTLET
30. ADD 110V OUTLET IN PANTRY (SIDE WALL NEXT TO BDRM)
31. DO NOT MOUNT THE CLOCK (CUSTOMER WILL MOUNT)
32. ADD 110V OUTLET IN REAR CLOSET
33. GE ADVANTIUM MICROWAVE ILO STD - VENTED TO OUTSIDE

Understanding Weights

Thanks to Mike Fultz and my DW for information they contributed for this article.

One of the most important things to understand about the RV is its weight - and how much weight it can carry.  I have been particularly concerned with this issue, because Newmar added a lot of weight to the 2016 version of the standard coach that I'm ordering so that they could accommodate tile in the slides and a sturdier frame.

The weight limitations for an RV are mostly determined by the manufacturer of the chassis.  When reading all of the terms and abbreviations, it may help you if you consider that:

• "Rating" means "Maximum" and 
• "Gross" means "Total"

So GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) can be thought of as Total Vehicle Weight, Maximum - or the maximum total weight of the vehicle.

Remember that it's important to weigh the RV after you've loaded it, paying special attention to the weight on each axle.  Weight distribution is important!  It's especially important to watch the weight on the front axle.  You don't want to overload any axle, but should be particularly careful about the one in front.  Do everything you can to move weight off the front and towards the rear so the other axles can pick up a higher (percentage) share of the load.

These are things that they can tell you about a particular model before they actually build it.  They represent the maximum weights that can be supported by the chassis:

• Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR).  This is the maximum weight that a particular axle can support.  Each axle has its own GAWR. 

• Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR).  This is the most that the coach can weigh.  It is often the total of how much all of the axles can support, so it's equal to (or close) to the sum of all of the GAWRs.  

• Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).  This is the GVWR plus the weight of anything else you add or pull behind it.  Don't confuse this with the hitch rating, which is how much weight the hitch assembly can pull.  If you have a motorhome with a GVWR of 40,000# and are going to pull a truck that weighs 5,000#, you need to make sure that your GCWR is 45,000# or higher.  If you take the GCWR and subtract the GVWR, you'll see how much weight you can pull - as long as your hitch is also rated to pull the weight.  You may find when you calculate how much you can pull that you can pull 10,000# and still be under the GCWR.  However, your hitch may only be rated for 5,000#.  Be sure everything lines up.

The things below are actual measurements for your specific one-of-a-kind RV.  After it's built and options have been added, they put a sticker in the unit that gives you the real numbers.  Note that the manufacturer will usually publish some of these as approximate numbers for your model type, but until the coach actually exists and they weigh everything, you won't have the real deal.

• Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW).  Notice that it doesn't say "Rating", so this is an actual measurement of a particular motorhome's total weight when they drive it out of the factory with FULL fuel tanks, oil and coolant.  Nothing else is included in the UVW.

• Net Carrying Capacity (NCC).  This is obtained by subtracting UVW from the GVWR.  What's left after the subtraction is the weight of anything you put into the coach other than fuel, oil and coolant:  occupants, fresh water, clothes, LP gas, dealer-installed accessories, dishes, and any other cargo you put in the coach.  If you add up the weight of these things, it should not exceed the NCC.  Note that manufacturers and many in the RV community still talk about NCC, but it's really been replaced by the next two terms:  SCWR and CCC.

• Sleep Capacity Weight Rating (SCWR):  Each RV, even within the same line or model, may have different "official" sleeping capacities.  My RV officially sleeps four people, while someone else who ordered my same model with another couch instead of recliners may sleep six people.  The SCWR is the official number of sleepers times 154 pounds.

• Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC).  This is the GVWR minus these things:  UVW, SCWR, full potable water tank (include hot water tanks), and full LP gas tanks.  What's left?  Nothing but your actual cargo:  dishes, clothes, lawn chairs, food, etc.

You'll see and hear all of the above terms often.  However, there was a change in 2007 that required motorhomes to have a "motor home occupant and cargo carrying capacity (OCCC)" label posted in the RV.  Newmar posts this type of label and, I would think, other manufacturers do, too.

The OCCC label says "Motor Home Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity", and beneath it shows that "Combined Weight of Occupants and Cargo Should Never Exceed XXXX#".  They also say at the bottom of the sticker that fresh water weight is to be included in the cargo, and you also have to include the tongue weight of anything you haul (like a motorcycle you may put on the back of the rig).

This means that you have to take the number on the sticker (4153# in the photo above) and subtract 1) your full water tank capacity (number of gallons times 8.3), 2) estimated weight of passengers and 3) tongue weight of anything you're hauling.  What's left is how many pounds of actual cargo (dishes, clothes, food, spare oil, and anything in the basement storage) you can carry.

In our case, I'm hearing that similarly configured Dutch Star 4369's have labels that show the OCCC as being in the neighborhood of 3300#.  This doesn't leave me much:

3300# - 1100# (full fresh water) - 800# (4 passengers, conservative) = 1400# of cargo.

This doesn't seem like much for all of our cargo.  However, when you add up most of the things you would take on the road, I can't imagine taking 3/4 of a ton of stuff along.  Plus, we can always (if needed) drive with half a freshwater tank and 2/3 of the fuel tank - saving a whopping 800# !  I should note that other 4369's similarly equipped as ours have had OCCC's of 4100+ pounds.  There's a good chance that mine will be in the neighborhood of 3900#, giving me 600 more pounds than my "worst case".

Other ways to get some more cargo storage would be to take away some of the options.  Heating the floor tiles adds another 225 pounds.  The two slide-out storage trays in the basement total 300 pounds.  Removing these options would give us another 525 pounds of cargo capacity.

After considering everything, we think that we can live with the allowance we'll have.  It's quite possible that our OCCC could come in closer to 4000#, in which case we'd have about 700# that I'm not planning on!  Either way, we think we're good so we are proceeding with the options we wanted.

[See Update on Weights for some updated information on this topic.]

Hope all of this helps those of you who are working your own numbers.

Our Basic Order

This is what we've ordered, straight from the 2016 Dutch Star 4369 order sheet dated 7/22/2015.  Specials will listed after they are approved and finalized.  Given Newmar's current workload, it could be sometime next week.

Note that the exterior color isn't specified here.  It was sent to Newmar as part of the e-mail that transmitted this order form.  We requested the Mountain Aire's "Windswept" color scheme to exactly match that of Dutch Star Coach #xxxxxxx, already in our dealer's inventory (see We have chosen our exterior color scheme!).

We have chosen our exterior color scheme!

So we played and played with different combinations of colors.  We liked darker on top, and were considering things like trying to match a color to our toad, the contrast in colors between our interior and exterior, and what would be the easiest to order.

With Newmar, it's not so difficult to change an exterior color - but don't even think about trying to change the design.  So we experimented with several color combinations (see Playing around with the exterior colors) and ended up convincing ourselves that we weren't totally happy with anything.

Our toad will be a Dodge RAM pickup truck.  It's dark gray, so we thought a lot about changing one of the colors to match it.  Then we noticed that the outside would be black, dark gray, light gray and another color that was almost white.  But when you walk into the coach, everything is beige (Cordova interior) and brown.

After spending hours on various combinations, we started browsing around the online inventory photos of our dealer to see how actual photos differed from drawings.  In doing so, we ran across a Dutch Star that wasn't painted using one of the three default Dutch Star schemes (Cannes, Night Sky and Maritime).  We liked the one we saw and my DW looked it up on the specs and saw that its scheme was "Windswept".  Where did that come from?  A quick search of Newmar's site turned up a Windswept exterior color scheme on the Mountain Aire.

Independence RV has this one for sale with the Windswept exterior color scheme.

When we saw it, we knew right away that it was the one we wanted because it has the darker top and the other colors that transition nicely between the exterior and the interior.  It's the one that we've requested.

Wow.  Glad that's done.

9/22/2015 Update:  We received the actual colors for this scheme from Newmar.  Here's how it's listed on the special order sheet:

SPECIAL ORDER EXTERIOR COLORS

SKIN-56680 CAJUN SPICE OBSIDIAN

A-64503 MEDIUM FAWN MET

B-44429B LIGHT CHAMPAINE MET

C-57714 DARK FAWN MET

AWNING LINEN TWEED

Understanding Engine Pre-heat

Thanks to my friend Mike Fultz for providing all of the information (that I've merely explained) and for reviewing it for accuracy.

It's a good idea to be able to pre-heat the engine before you start it up in a cold environment.  To do this (in the Dutch Star and probably in others), there's a standard item listed in the brochures as "Engine block heat", meaning that a heating device actually heats the engine oil pan, thus providing heat to the engine.  For this to work, you have to open up the back of the Dutch Star and plug in the heater (there's a 110V outlet there with the plug nearby), then go to the inside console and turn on the Engine Heater switch.  This also requires the coach to have access to 110V power.  Often, when dry camping or parked in a storage lot, 110V is not easily accessed.

In addition to the Engine Block Heater, there's a switch on the Oasis control panel located in the console above the passenger seat that is marked "Engine Preheat".  Originally, turning this on caused a control valve in the Oasis Distribution box to open and circulate a liquid (diesel or shore/generator powered) through the Cummins engine water jackets to preheat the engine.

However, Newmar has changed the way this works.  The "Engine Preheat" console switch actually doesn't do anything anymore.  That's because they have routed the liquid (ethelyne glycol) through the engine water jackets all the time.  This serves two purposes:  it preheats the engine and it also uses the engine's waste heat to heat up water to use for sinks and the shower or to provide heat to the coach.

Because of this new method of plumbing, often referred to as "motoraid", the engine can now be preheated in subfreezing weather using only the Oasis and without having to use the generator or shore power.  This is possible because the Oasis can run on its own with its diesel fueled burner.

To use it without shore power or the generator, you have to make sure the Oasis is on (the switch is on the Oasis itself, but you probably already have it on if you're camping somewhere because you're using hot water all the time), and you have to turn on the Burner switch in the console. This causes the Oasis to "burn" diesel fuel to heat up the liquid.

All of this is standard.  There's nothing special to order.

Playing around with the exterior colors

Newmar has published three color schemes for their Dutch Star's.  You pick the one you want when you complete your order sheet.  They are called Maritime, Cannes, and Night Sky.  Each design is broken up into four basic colors, with some shading.

Here's their layout for the Cannes Full-painted Exterior Graphics:

My wife would like to use some different colors, or maybe even just use their available colors in her own arrangement.  You're not usually allowed to change the design, just change the colors assigned to "Skin", A, B and C.  The problem is that it's hard to imagine what it might look like using different colors.

Just to be sure we had a color pallette available that matched Newmar's (not that we'll use their colors, but it's nice to have it available), I captured screen shots of the color sections for each of the three exteriors.  It looks like this:

I figured that the best way to play with various color schemes was to use a graphics editor that allows you to select similarly colored irregular shapes - like those waves of color on the RV's graphics.  One such program is called PhotoImpact Pro.  And I just happened to have already had it installed on my computer.

Bringing up PhotoImpact, I was able to individually select the colors and "paint" them with a color of my choosing.  I was able to take the above Cannes graphic and change it to something entirely different in about 20-30 minutes.  It ain't fancy, but you can see the results:  the top is the Cannes and the bottom is my new creation:

Now don't think for one minute that the bottom one is our choice.  I was just playing around.  But now we know what to do to experiment with various colors.

If you have PhotoImpact, just load the basic photo and use the Magic Wand set to a similarity of 10 to select a particular color (like the Skin).  Then select the plus sign "+" and continue clicking on pieces of the skin color until you think you have most of it selected.  Once that's done, select the bucket fill tool.  You can choose a color of your own or use the eyedropper and pick one of their colors from another graphic (like the one I made above).  When you're done, just save it.

I didn't mess with blending and shading.  Newmar does a wonderful job with that.  But using this technique will give us a pretty darn good idea of what we'll want to do with our exterior colors.

Hershey Day 2: What we learned

My DW is doing a bang-up job at Hershey.  She spent another day in and out of the coaches, doing research, talking to other people and sitting with factory reps to iron out issues with our order.  She called me several times, at one point even having me on Skype while her and two others talked about some things that had concerned us.

While this won't mean much to people who aren't getting a Newmar, it goes to show the kind of information you get by attending the shows.  Perhaps you can get some ideas of things to ask about your own coach.

Here are some of the things I got from just a few short phone calls with her - when she gets back, I know there will be even more to discuss:

• Outside LED lights.  We know that our coach is going to have LED lights over the door (the "porch"), along the edge of the awning, and under the curbside slides.  But I had read that the porch and awning lights were on the same switch.  Several people said to make sure that we ordered separate switches.  My wife tested them and found out that they are on separate switches by default.  One special request eliminated.
• Upgraded solar panel wiring.  I had understood that Newmar ran 10 gauge wire from the roof to the power bay to allow for the possibility of future solar panels.  Numerous people had advised to request upgraded 6 gauge wire because it can support more panels.  I did make the request and it was initially denied.  We figured that they may only put in 8-gauge wire.  It turns out that we were using a basic order form dated in May 2015 that only said something like "solar wiring upgrade".  The latest order form is dated in July and the option has been reworded to say that the upgraded solar wiring supports 1200 watts using 6-gauge wiring.  Obviously, it was denied as a "special" order because it is an option on the standard order sheet.  We'll now be adding that option.
• Kitchen sink.  Every coach we saw in person had double-bowl Corian (or similar) kitchen sinks.  However, we saw two online videos that showed a single, large stainless steel sink.  Since it wasn't on the standard order sheet as an option, we added it as a "special".   Much to our surprise, it was denied.  As she learned today, the stainless steel sink is the standard sink for our model; it was denied because it's already there as the standard.  It would sure make things a lot easier if they put some indication on their form as to why something is denied.
• Wiring for External Satellite Dish.  Having read about others who did it and seen it on some coaches myself, I submitted a special request to add extra wiring to support an external satellite dish.  It was denied.  Apparently, the right way to phrase the request is to ask for a "tripod setup".  Yes, words matter.  We'll resubmit.
• Smoke and mirrors.  I had never noticed this before, but the large mirrors in the bedroom and kitchen are "smoked"; that is, they have a grayish tint.  My wife sure noticed it, and she wants to request that they be replaced by regular mirrors.
• Engine pre-heat loop.  This is good to have when you're in colder climates.  We don't know when we'll be where, so we thought we'd ask for it.  It wasn't anywhere on the order sheet and we totally missed it in the brochure, where it clearly says that an "engine block heater" is standard. (See the later post called Understanding Engine pre-heat for an update on this)
• Upgraded Microwave Oven.  I have read a lot of posts that recommend that people upgrade the standard microwave oven to the GE Advantium.  Many folks said it was a major improvement.  We put it on our list of specials, even though we heard that the MSRP on the upgrade was a little over $1000.  She found out today that prior to 2015, a different brand of microwave was used and they received a fair number of complaints.  Beginning with 2015, they are using a Whirlpool and haven't had any (maybe just a lot less) complaints.  Both the Whirlpool and the GE are large convection microwaves, but the GE can also broil.  We decided that we could do without broiling, given the extra cost and the rearrangement of the cabinets to accommodate the larger GE.  So we're going to stay with the standard Whirlpool microwave. [Last minute change when we placed the order:  we're going with the Advantium.  It's vented to the outside and we don't want to regret not getting it]
• Slide-out trays under the kitchen sink.  Beginning with the 2016 DS4369's, the single slide-out tray under the kitchen sink has been replaced with two side-by-side trays.  We didn't think we would like that as much, so we requested that we get the single tray.  After reconsidering and thinking about how we would use the space, we're going to delete that request and stick with the standard two trays.
• Table attached to the passenger chair.  The DS4369 includes a table that folds up to a position above the lap of the passenger seat.  My wife doesn't like the table, and said that it's in a position that it could be bumped into when stowed and the chair is re-oriented toward the living area.  She would have liked to have them not install it, but was told that the coach was somehow certified with the table in place and that they would not be able to "not" put it on during manufacture.  If we don't want it, we'll have to remove it after delivery.
• Air conditioner condensation drains.  I was concerned that the air conditioner condensation would run off on the curb side of the coach, so I made a request that it be "plumbed" so that it only drained to the driver side.  My DW was told that they cannot change that due to something with the gutter trenches or something on the roof.  Apparently, it actually drains on both sides.
• Pantry Shelves and Lights.  We had seen some models with five shelves in the pantry, so we thought we'd ask for another one.  However, Mrs. G found out that the 2016 DS4369 comes with six shelves in the pantry.  The pantry doesn't have a light in it.  However, one of the higher-end models (I think the London Aire) has a LED light strip in the pantry that turns on when you open the door - and it can be ordered as an option on the Dutch Star.  Another addition to our list.

There may be more later.  If so, I'll come back here and add to the list.  If you follow by e-mail, I don't if you get another one when something is updated.  If you don't (or aren't sure), you may want to check back here in a few days to see if we've been able to expand the list.

Hershey Show Day!

Great day today, because Mrs. G is in Hershey for the big RV show.  She's there to choose colors, fabrics, tile, wallpaper, sinks, backsplashes, counters, lighting and exterior colors.

We knew before she left that she should meet with four people when she got there:  one of the Newmar factory reps (who we have met before and who is involved in our order), another factory rep who is the lady who handles a lot of the interior customization, and a couple that I've been corresponding with via e-mail.  The couple is about the same place in the ordering process as we are.

While at the hotel this morning having breakfast, she noticed that the two factory reps were at the next table and introduced herself.  And she wasn't at the show long when she ran into the couple!

So far today, she's Skyped twice to show me a few things.  Looks like a big show and I think what we get out of it will be well worth her visit.

Satellite TV: Lots of difficult decisions

One of the most difficult things to plan for the RV is the satellite TV system.  If the manufacturer is  going to mount a dish on the roof of the RV, then you need to know which service you're going to use before you order.

DirectTV or DISH?

From everything I hear, both are good for RVs.  Whenever someone posts this question to a RV Facebook group or in a forum, it seems like the responses are pretty evenly divided.  In terms of responses, and this is not scientific (it's my take on it), I'd say about 60%+ favor DISH.

In looking at both options, I wanted to keep several things in mind (in random order):

• Ability to move stuff (like receivers) between a house and the RV, if desired
• Ease of setup
• Programming
• Customer service; ability to call after a move to re-establish local stations
• Ease of use (such as movement between satellites when changing channels)
• Payment plans and temporary suspension of service
• Experiences of RVers

I also wanted the option, just in case, to be able to set up an external satellite dish on a tripod in case the RV was under a lot of tree cover. 

The internet is full of great advice and how-to information about satellite dishes for RVers.  I'll bet I looked at 20 videos and read quite a few blogs, articles and forums before making a decision.  In the long run, I decided to go with DISH.  My reasons, although sure that there are some DirectTV supporters who would disagree with some of them, are below:

• They have a plan where you can start the service up or suspend it with a phone call
• To get most of their HD channels, you only have to point to one satellite
• Calling them to report that you're at a new location (to view local channels) is generally easier than with DirectTV
• You can't get HD channels with DirectTV unless your external satellite antenna is an open-faced dish that must be manually aimed.  The DirectTV-compatible automatic-aiming domes don't support HD.  DISH has several automatic dome models that support HD.

That being said, I've already had several frustrations with DISH and their ability to handle customer service for RVs.  Check out my post on irv2.com called Frustrating day trying to get DISH network info.  The saving grace is that I hear that DirectTV isn't much different.

Satellite TV retailer support isn't very good in many cases because dealers are scattered everywhere (for example, there aren't any "official" ones within a two hour drive of Orlando) and they sometimes do satellite as a sideline.  I wanted to have some things installed when I'm up in Indiana next year and the nearest DISH dealer, in Elkhart, is actually "Cellular Communications".  

Prepping the RV for Satellite TV

Ideally, when you get your coach it'll be completely ready for Satellite TV.  However, the RV setup can get complicated real fast.  The manufacturer has probably already included a Blu-Ray player and a rooftop over-the-air (OTA) antenna.  You also have the rooftop satellite dish, so you get the coach having at least three possible inputs for each TV.  In my case, there will be four TVs:  living Room, over the cab, bedroom and outside.

My technical radar spotted the possible trouble spots:

• How does each TV switch from one input to another?  Probably the "Input" setting on each TV.
• How does each TV change channels?  If you're changing channels on the outside TV and its receiver is in the coach, how does the receiver "see" the remote control?  Do you have to have RF (radio frequency) remotes?  Do they pre-wire IR (infrared) repeaters next to each TV?
• If you are only going to have two receivers, does the wiring support locating them in different locations and will that work?  For example, if we want the bedroom TV and the one over the cab to work off of the same receiver, can that receiver be in the bedroom?  If so, does wiring run from the bedroom to the A/V (audio/video) cabinet and then to the over-cab TV?  Isn't that non-standard wiring?

I had quite a few more questions, but getting the answers wasn't easy.  And once I thought I knew what I wanted, I discovered that it wasn't necessarily a given that the manufacturer would be willing to run all of the wiring.  I'm still waiting on the answers to some of those questions listed above.

The nice thing about Newmar is that they will try to work with you.  As of this writing, we're still going back-and-forth with the dealer and Newmar to resolve a few of the issues and questions.

Home Satellite vs. RV Satellite

One of the things that I honestly don't understand about DirectTV and DISH is that they don't allow certain equipment designated for houses to officially be used in RVs.  In my case, I've communicated with several DISH RV customers who have installed Hoppers and Joeys into their RVs, even though DISH won't sell those units to RV customers.  The Hopper is a receiver with lots of hard disk storage and has record/playback capabilities.  Joeys are small boxes that connect to a Hopper.  Each Joey has its own remote control and communicates what the user wants back to the Hopper and it sends it back to the Joey.  In a four-TV system like mine, it would be great to have one Hopper and three Joeys (each is paired with one TV).  With that system, you can be watching a show in the bedroom, pause it, and go outside to pick up where you left off.  Very nice. 

But DISH only sells the Hopper/Joeys for installation in stationary dwellings (translation:  not your  RV).  So a lot of RVers are telling me that the best thing to do is order what you want for your house  and then walk it out to your RV.  Hoppers and Joeys work great in RVs - just like they do in a house.  So why does DISH (and DirectTV) make us jump through hoops like this?

Still not totally decided about the wiring

At this point, I've asked Newmar to install the DISH Traveler on the roof and put in their standard wiring.  I also asked for HDMI wiring to be run from the A/V cabinet to all of the TVs (denied on the first pass - I don't know why), extra wiring to the power bay for an external tripod-mounted dish (also denied), and an explanation about how the remotes will be "seen"  by the receivers (haven't received that answer yet).  Everyone's pretty busy with the Hershey Show right now.  My wife is there today and she's meeting with people from the factory.

So we know what service we're using and have the rooftop dish locked in, but I'm still not totally sure about all of the wiring.  We'll see how it goes this next week or so.

What did we end up doing?

See Choosing and Installing Satellite TV for the details!!

Viair RV Air Compressor

After reading so much about maintaining the RV's tires, I knew that it would be wise to get a portable air compressor.  It needed to be one that wouldn't take up too much space and had the ability to handle the higher pressures that larger RV tires need.

Looking at various sites and reading responses in forums like irv2, I decided to get a Viair Portable Air Compressor model 400PA-RV (P/N 40047).  It came yesterday afternoon!

This compressor connects to your 12V car or RV battery and includes two 30' long stretch hoses that can be connected together to reach all of the RV's tires no matter how large it is.  The package includes the compressor, a nozzle with a pressure gauge, hoses, a connector to fill "normal" (not the inside tires) tires, an extension so you can reach in and fill the inside tires (for dual wheels) and a kit of small adapters to fill things like rafts and balls. It uses no oil, will fill tires up to 150 PSI and has an automatic shut-off function so it turns itself on and off between tire fills.

I got ours on Amazon.

Here's Viair's Youtube video: